Below is a series of questions asked from different people over the years.
Hello, Tom! I was wondering if you would be interested in doing an interview with me for a book project I’m toying with about the American Christian metal scene from 1982-1997. I’ve been a SARDONYX fan for a long time, and I bought Majestic Serenity directly from you through LightShine Ministries many moons ago. – Arttie Parker
Hi Arttie! It’s been a long time. I remember many conversations on the “Christian Metal Realm” discussion board. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. You probably already know this, but personal “angle” is that SARDONYX is a “ministry band”. We were birthed in the day when band like Petra, DeGarmo & Key and others taught the Bible from a rock perspective. I still strongly believe that “White Metal” should be the alternative to the secular metal world and therefore separate from it. In 1993, we published this article …
Tom, thank you for taking the time to talk with me. For those who may not be familiar, and who may have missed out on some killer music over the years, can you let folks know who you are?
Back in 1987, the Lord gave me a kick in the pants to pursue other musicians of like mind and calling. In March of 1988, He brought five young men together that (at the time) seemed pretty cool. We were all talented in our own way. Little did we know that He had great plans for us. For the next 6 years we taught the Bible as a live power metal band. In 1994, SARDONYX was at our peak of influence with a good sized regional fan base with some attention nationwide and internationally. But for many different reasons, we decided that live shows were not for us any longer. When metal started morphing into the mid 90s grunge era, it seemed like it was time to take a break and focus on raising our families.
Did you have any musical background prior to starting up Sardonyx? Had you been in other bands?
I have always been a musician and had a lot of experience in jazz band in high school and college and I have always been a singer. I met our drummer, Mike, in a band I auditioned for called “Messenger” which was a Christian hard-rock band. But my personal interest was metal. Mike and I totally connected and when Messenger disbanded, we started looking for other musicians. I’ll never forget that historic meeting when the 5 of us met for the first time. It was a perfect blend. Even though we lived over 400 miles apart, every weekend we would travel to one of our homes and practice all day Saturday, go to church together on Sunday and return home. We put a lot of miles on in 2 years until our first show.
Since you kind of brought the term up, how would you define Christian metal? People seem to argue about it a lot, but I’ve always thought it was pretty cut and dry. What would you say?
It’s really quite simple. Here are three simple things to understand if you are a Christian. To be a follower of Jesus Christ, we are commanded by Him to go, make disciples, baptize them and teach them all the things He taught us (Matthew 28:19-20). We are no longer our own. We have been bought with a price (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). We are to separate from the world (2 Corinthians 6:17 / James 4:4). Christian metal was birthed out of the early Christian rock bands. ALL of those bands preached Jesus and used rock simply as a tool to communicate the Gospel and share the love of Jesus with their audiences. They all experienced radical life change and many of them came out of the Jesus Movement in the late 60s / early 70s. SARDONYX was highly influenced by many of those early Christian rock bands. We were a power metal band like in the style of bands like Savatage and Metal Church. God used us to point many people to Him. When people started squabbling over the term, I coined the phrase “Ministry Band”. Like I said before, its simple! Our lyrics are surrounded with Bible references and each song we have written over 5 projects is designed to make disciples of Jesus Christ. We are a ministry band. We preached from the stage between songs. There is no debate about that. We proudly wore the label “WHITE METAL” because back in those days, everyone knew what that was.
In 1987, did you have anyone to model the idea of White Metal or Christian Metal after? Stryper was out, sure, but was there any kind of regional scene where you and Sardonyx were?
Messiah Prophet was the first (more notable) band from our area that impressed me. In 1986, their lyrics stated, “… Christ, my Lord, my King – He is the Master of the metal”. Coming off of being inspired by powerful rock ministry lyrics of Petra, Servant, Fireworks, hearing “Master of the Metal” gave me that, “Hey, I can do that too!” inspiration. But the clincher for me was seeing Glenn Kaiser speaking to a hostile crowd after Resurrection Band threw it down for 45 minutes. When I saw a group of jeering 1%ers get quiet and one by one go forward in tears to accept Christ, I knew God was showing me the power of hard rock of ministry. In the 80s, Christian metal bands were all inspired by many of these early Christian rock bands and most of them were clearly evangelistic. Most bands preached from the stage. Back then, the term “black metal” represented bands who unashamedly proselytized as satanists (or wanted to shock people into buying their music). Who coined the term “white metal”? I honestly don’t know. But we ran with it because we were obviously lovers of Jesus and if “black metal” represented satanists, well, then, WE ARE WHITE METAL! Nowadays, people call “black metal” a music style and I understand that there are Christian bands that use the style to preach Christ. Honestly, I can’t comment on any of that. I will end this answer by saying that I do believe the early days of Christian metal were marked more by separation from the world (providing an alternative to secular music) and strong evangelism (preaching from the stage and personal discipleship).
These two verses sum up why I learned the metal culture and set out to be a missionary to it: “Let the [spoken] word of Christ have its home within you [dwelling in your heart and mind—permeating every aspect of your being] as you teach [spiritual things] and admonish and train one another with all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs with thankfulness in your hearts to God. Whatever you do [no matter what it is] in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus [and in dependence on Him], giving thanks to God the Father through Him.” Colossians 3:16-17 Amplified Bible I never saw being in a band as a way to get famous, make money or “get the girl”. It was merely an extension of my calling before the Lord – a an effective tool. It’s all about “INFLUENCE”. When you are belting out lyrics to 1,000 people at a show (that you wrote by yourself in your practice studio) and everyone around you are mouthing those words back to you, you realize that you have great influence. The Lord showed me early on that if I steward those moments with integrity, He would give me more.
Was Sardonyx on the receiving end of the jeering that Kaiser and Rez were receiving that you mentioned?
We had our moments, that’s for sure! One of the blessings that God gave us was that years later, we actually had the privilege of playing with Rez Band. Glenn gave me some personal advice one time that I never forgot. He said that when you go into a potentially hostile environment, make friends with the most outspoken and loud guy in the club before you play. Then when people start to jeer you, that guy will defend you. That actually happened once at a club we played at called “The Iroquois” down in Roanoke, Virginia. While the first band was playing, I noticed this guy on the edge of getting drunk, who was very loud and obnoxious. He had camo on, so I pulled my hair back through my camo hat and approached him. I said, “Hey dude, what’s the limit on deer down here?”. I explained I was from Pennsylvania and was just curious. He immediately started explaining and I made myself a friend. When I told him we were playing next he said, “Lookin’ forward to it”! When we got finished playing our first song, I always said, “We are SARDONYX and we just want you to know that we do everything for the glory of God” and then, into the next song. But he raised his beer bottle and yelled, “… and it’s some pretty kick #%* God music too”! I thanked him from the stage and we flew into the next song. Later, I usually talked about suicide and God’s love. Somebody yelled, “Play the next song” and my friend yelled across the club, “You let him talk”! I learned in that environment that salt is to be shaken and not poured. We weren’t obnoxious. Our lyrics spoke for themselves and nobody can listen to our music and not hear what we are saying. Sharing God’s love in a club is pretty effective – especially if you’re a good band. But you had to be bold. I could tell you a lot of stories – believe me.
So obviously Sardonyx started out as a live band with original music, even before Majestic Serenity was recorded. What, if anything, do you remember about that first live show, or at least some of the earliest live shows? Do you recall when you guys decided you were good enough to go live?
Our first show was in 1990 at the high school where our lead guitarist graduated. We had done lots of little “showings” where people came to our rehearsals and encouraged us to actually book events. We were driven to get out there with the message of the Gospel. Learning how to promote ourselves was a new challenge and we started learning how by observing the scene and asking a lot of questions. As a follow up to the band’s live ministry, we developed “LightShine International Ministries” as the follow up connection for our fans to learn more about the Christian life. We registered with the IRS as a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. We patterned it after ministries like “Jesus People USA” (Rez Band) and “Last Days Ministries” (Keith Green). We started developing a network of connections and LightShine Metal Ministries started a radio show called “Thunder Zone” which aired on FM90.3 WJTL once a week for almost 5 years. So, our follow up ministry promoted all Christian metal bands but obviously promoted what SARDONYX was doing. We started “LightShine Metal Concerts” and hosted and played with several bands that came through our region including bands like Seraiah, Guardian, Rez Band, Haven, Sacrament, Thresher and others. We also started learning about how other bands promoted themselves and how labels operated. We made the decision early on to promote ourselves rather than sign to a label. We began publishing full page ads in “Heaven’s Metal Magazine” and started getting a nationwide following. We also had our own “LightShine Metal Mag” that we sent to 42 different countries and eventually had a mailing list of over 8,000 people. It was a good time – all “pre-Internet” and God used us to impact many for Him.
At what point did you guys start thinking, “Hey, we should put out our own album?”
The day we met, we all agreed that we were going to be an original band. We never played a single cover tune, but immediately started writing. Just before we started doing shows in 1990, we recorded the four songs on our “Rebel of Reason” EP at Dave Kurtz’s recording studio (bass player for “Thresher”). In 1992 we recorded “Majestic Serenity”.
Dave was one of those “ministry guys” who loved the Lord more than even the music. He understood our focus on ministry. Our experience during our “live years” (6 total) saw the vast array of perspectives in the musicians and other bands we played with. I believe the foundations of the Christian Metal Movement began in purity of heart and single-minded in focus. But just like any move of God in church history, people started to lose focus and get distracted by Satan. It even happened in our own band.
Can you expound upon that?
It’s all about perspective. I will plainly admit that my motivation for joining the Christian Metal movement in the late 80s might be different than others who were also in the movement. It would be like interviewing people who arrived on the shores of America from Europe in the 1600-1700s. Not everyone who journeyed here came with the same motives. For example, in 1607, Robert Hunt landed in Cape Henry, Virginia and dedicated the “… Land, and ourselves, to reach the People within these shores with the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and to raise up Godly generations after us, and with these generations take the Kingdom of God to all the earth …” But we also know that there were many who saw this new continent as a land of opportunity – gaining wealth and even subduing the people who lived here in order to personally prosper. In other words, not all the people who came to America from Europe had pure motives before the Lord. The same could be said about the early days of Christian metal. There were some godly men and women who understood that their place of influence was given to them to STEWARD before the Lord like He taught in Matthew 25:14-30. Jesus commanded us to go and MAKE DISCIPLES (Matthew 28:18-20). Those who obeyed His command IDENTIFIED what a “Christian” band was (in the beginning of the movement) by doing what Jesus told them to do, “… teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you (vs.20)”. But some of these musicians never understood the importance of making disciples. Some rode the wave of the Christian metal industry because it was easier to get signed than in the secular scene. Many of them had no spiritual depth – no root – and when the demonic world turned up the heat, they withered and died. For many, the power of the Gospel was choked out with carnal compromise. Jesus’s parable of the sower in Matthew 13:3-9 is a perfect analogy to what happened in the Christian Metal scene. Once they figured out they couldn’t make the money their unsaved musician friends (bands) were making, many who once identified themselves as “metal missionaries” started to soften their message. Some bands did it to gain more “fans” so they could sell more product to pay off their labels. Ironically, they figured out that Jesus was right when He said that you identify with Him, men would hate you (John 15:18-20). They did. Therefore, some turned their backs on Him and the world loved them for it. There is something revealing when the pagan world loves you because you keep your mouth shut and hide your faith to gain their approval. Some bands lost all vestiges of the original roots of Christian music while justifying their involvement in the Christian music market because “they had fans”. Soon, the talk began to evolve that tried cancel the term “Christian music”. People began teaching that music is “just music” and there is no distinction between Christian and secular music (you know – “the Christian plumber” analogy). I’ll tell you right now; I believe the people who say that are wrong. Music is different than the trades. When you step on stage, you become an “INFLUENCER”. No one who has been there can deny that. I remember many times seeing our fans mouthing the words of lyrics that I wrote alone in my studio. Once you realize you have that kind of influence (and you are a believer called to make disciples of Jesus Christ), you begin to understand that there is no greater influencer than music. And the Bible clearly teaches that there is supposed to be a distinction between God’s sons and daughters in contrast to the unbelieving world. 2 Corinthians 6:17 tells us to come out from them and be separate. James 4:4-8 tells us when God’s people become a friend with the world (joining forces with them), they become and enemy of God. Those are some pretty strong words! So, how did this affect me? Personally, what I saw in many of the bands and musicians we interacted with made me more determined to hold the line of ministry that we started with. We were a ministry band. It saddened me that people were falling away from the Lord. I spoke with Roger Martinez many times after we met in 1992 at the Creation Festival in Pennsylvania and he attempted to sway me to his thinking to no avail. With the fall of people like Roger, I believe God began revealing that He was beginning to purge Christian metal of sin. What followed was a separating of who was real and who was not. And to those who were His, He began His work (Hebrews 12:3-11). I was one of them. Roger fell into the trap of preaching with a “crusader mentality”. He was like a locomotive behind the mic – forcing the audience to take a stand for Jesus like it was the only “cool thing” to do. But when he decided to take a stand against the very thing he preached for years in Vengeance, he had gone too far. It was easy to point my finger at people like Roger. But all of us were falling into these traps. Our lyrics in our song, “Rebel of Reason” literally ridiculed those who disagreed with the Bible. It was the thing to do back then. In light of the Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart scandals of the late 80s and early 90s, the secular bands were slandering Christians. So, many of us threw it right back at them. Today I regret influencing our fans in that way. Then the very thing I thought I would never do became one of my personal challenges – pride. Even though I tried to maintain a level of personal integrity, being the frontman of a successful power metal band started to consume me. It also hurt my marriage. I never had sexual temptation like I did when my hair was long and I had an “ALL ACCESS” pass hanging around my neck. I had youth leaders and pastors tell me I had more influence on their youth that they had. Because we were a successful independent band and spoke out against the inefficient and manipulative Christian labels that many of our friends were signed to, people started looking up to us as “godly rebels”. Pride began to consume me. God is not honored when we live in pride. I knew too much of His Word and He held me accountable for what I knew (Matthew 7:2). He wanted me to realize that I represented Him to the world and I was dropping the ball. I was His Namesake (Psalm 23:3). Therefore, He was going to hold me to a higher standard. I could go on. But these are my observations living in those years and seeing the industry change.
We’re you and Sardonyx ever courted by Pure Metal or R.E.X or Intense…any of the Christian metal labels? Or even secular labels, perhaps?
In earlier answers (above), I explained how we learned how to promote ourselves through our radio show called “Thunder Zone” and our “LightShine Metal Mag” which eventually went to over 8,000 people in 42 different countries. Back in the early 90s there was obviously no internet and we had to rely on snail mail and advertising in magazines like Heaven’s Metal. We learned that by simply promoting ourselves, we could do more than most labels we’re doing for their bands – and we were not in debt! We paid off a $27,000 loan for recording “Majestic Serenity” and realized that we were ahead of the game financially. But probably the most influential conversation I had that determined our future was with Pastor Bob Beeman in 1991 when Sanctuary Church was still in Redondo Beach, California. He had chosen our album as his second favorite (behind “Sanctuary Praise”) and he was very encouraging to me as the leader of LightShine Metal Ministries and the lead singer of SARDONYX. He gave me some straightforward advice that since we had such a clear and distinct calling for ministry (he knew all we were already doing), he advised me that signing to any label would only hold us back. He (and others) shared many of the horror stories of how labels controlled what the band released and operated. As time went on, it got worse. We began taking full page ads out in Heaven’s Metal and doing interviews in fanzines all over the industry exposing the corruption that was going on. Needless to say, we got blacklisted by many of the labels. I’m not going to get any more specific because I already feel the pride coming back – lol. But I could tell you stories how we were specifically blacklisted because of this. But we had more than enough opportunities to play and we believe God prospered us as a ministry band during that time. A lot of our friends were signed to REX and they admitted to us that we were doing more than REX was doing for them. At one point REX asked us if they could trade us our mailing list for featuring on of our songs on their compilation cassette called “Demolition “. We agreed to that. But the funny thing was, we realized that we had a much broader mailing list that they had. So, long answer but it is pretty straightforward. We never wanted to be signed and we were glad we never did.
Did Sardonyx ever get to really tour or catch on with any of the big Chtistian rock/metal festivals?
During our live years, we were a strong regional band. LightShine Metal Ministries did concert promotion and we hosted several bands that came through our area. Creation Concerts was another promoter who we worked with and we played at the 1992 & 1994 festivals as well as several smaller concerts in our area. There were numerous “coffee house” and youth center venues all over the region (Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, New Jersey, etc.) and we tried to secure dates almost every weekend. We developed good relationships with many different bands . Some of the bands we played with was Resurrection Band, Whitecross, Sacrament, Haven, The Brave, Guardian, Overdrive, Thresher, and a lot of lesser known bands. The only fly out show ever did was at Metal Quest ’93 which was in an arena venue in Casper, Wyoming. At that show, we had the opportunity to play with some of the midwest and west coast bands. Honestly, we were “careful” to make sure our gigs were “doable” financially. We were all married and some of us had children during those years and we didn’t have the option of just “hitting the road” without a clear business plan. While, that commitment limited us to some degree, it also saved our marriages. Again, those years were the pre-Internet years and even pre-cell phone. We used CB radios to communicate between vehicles. It was a lot of fun. But we met a lot of people and we were “usually” greeted with open arms and enthusiasm.
I almost went to Metal Quest! Being from Nebraska, I tried to get to any show like that I could! You say you were “usually” greeted with open arms. Who usually resisted the band the most–anti-Christians, or anti-metal Christians?
Often times, the pagan world seemed to give us this “stand-off-ish” reception when we would go into a club or play on the streets. To this day, I still believe in the value of being professional and shooting for excellence in your methods of ministry (the look, the quality of the music and showing the love of Jesus). It seems they were always curious. Occasionally you would get a heckler during our set. But, because we were a good band, most would give us a chance to play. You just had to be wise in how much you spoke between songs. Salt is to be shaken and not poured in those environments. From fellow Christians – Occasionally, we would have to take time to explain our ministry. I found that Charismatic churches were much more open to what we did. They seemed to understand how God was using us. More fundamental churches were more concerned with protecting their traditions rather than reaching the lost. Many of them are still like that today. I was raised that way so I understood their concerns. But our ministry was clear and undeniable. I taught our LightShine staff to be open and take time to explain our hearts to these kinds of people instead of “getting an attitude” towards them. Satan wants to divide the Body of Christ. We were committed to not allowing the spirit world to do their work. For example, in the early 90s a Bible college near us that “banned” their students from listening to our radio show that played Christian metal and did ministry interviews with people calling it “worldly”. Because I went to a similar Bible college in the early 80s, I understood their concerns to be set apart from the world (2 Corinthians 6:17). So, we talked about it as a staff and our DJs actually started addressing them on the air (at the college) in a favorable and friendly way – explaining the purpose of what we were doing. Of course, the students were still listening – lol – and eventually the “ban” was lifted. I would have loved hearing the conversations at the other end – lol.
What kind of response did Majestic Serenity get when you released it? Do you have any idea how many you sold or how far your reach was in the world?
I do not have those exact numbers. But, we paid off our $27,000 studio debt and we were able to market/advertise the CD (with the “Rebel of Reason – 1990 EP”) while doing live shows. We mailed our “LightShine Metal Mag” to 42 different countries. I don’t think we will fully ever know the impact we had from our follow up ministry. A couple years ago, a friend from Sweden invited me to the Meltdown Festival in the UK and I was able to get to know several ministry leaders there. At one part of the event, they had an auction of Christian metal memorabilia to raise money for the festival. I was surprised when someone actually brought a pack of old issues of our LightShine Metal Mag. I was humbled to say the least to realize that they had saved them for over 30 years!
That’s awesome! There was a LONG layoff between Majestic Serenity and your 2018 album, Sons of the Kingdom. Was Sardonyx still active during this time or did you take some time to recharge and assess where you, the band, and the ministry were at?
Between “Majestic Serenity – 1992” and “Sons of the Kingdom – 2018” were the years we raised three amazing kids. During that time, I worked as an actor at Sight & Sound Theatres and wrote and performed on a solo project “The Scream of the Guillotine – 2001” and a short SARDONYX EP called “Linear Progression – 2005”. The post “live” years convinced me that doing studio projects is what the Lord wanted me to do. Family was more important.
The above interview was from 2023.
Here is another interview from earlier …
HMA: To start with, could you give us a rundown of your profile, the style of metal you play and what attracted you to this particular style of music?
SARDONYX was born in 1988 in Pennsylvania on the east coast of the USA. We were influenced by many different metal bands from that era but saw each style like a color on an artist’s palette. We desired driving guitars and complex drumming but also, because I am a singer, the vocals needed to tell a story with melody. We call our style “Kingdom Power Metal” because we are unashamedly a ministry band. I had a critic once tell me our music is “spiritual propaganda”. To his surprise, I graciously thanked him for that description and have embraced it ever since.
HMA: Could you also summarize your beliefs and why they are essential to your life?
I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I believe He is the Creator of the world and He existed as God before He temporarily became a man to come to earth as the final sin offering for all of mankind. His death and historic resurrection became the free gift of eternal salvation for all who believe. There is nothing more important than this message in the world today. Therefore, our band embraced Jesus’s command to make disciples of Him in all the earth and that is what we do.
HMA: Christianity and metal seem to be at odds since the prime symbolic philosophy is one of the rebels, the devil being the prime archetype as reference and inspiration. What would be your connection, and how do we trace this specific behavior to metal or music in general?
It’s all about perspective. Although there are many bands that preach their own message of “countercultural rebellion”, there are many others who realize the influence they have to change the world for the better. This is true for non-Christian bands as well and some of them are trying their best to do good with their music. There may have been a time when Christianity and metal bands were at odds, but God led many of us in the 80s and early 90s to see the metal world as a mission field – using music to teach the Bible and lead people to Jesus Christ. Of course, Jesus Himself taught us that when we do that, men will hate us. Therefore, many bands that started off with a plan to identify with Christ changed their mission of operation because it hurt them financially. Rebellion is displayed in many different forms.
HMA: Would you regard metal as a secular affair (entertainment) or a religious (spiritual) experience, given that possibly the majority of metal bands regard themselves as atheists or outright against religion?
It is both. Google defines the word “secular” as: denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis. People across the world can go through life without any regard to the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is their choice. Many are against His teachings because He demands a response from them. Therefore, they become ambivalent towards Him and His people. I believe that those of us who use metal as a teaching tool will receive greater condemnation from the secular world because of this. SARDONYX is clearly a ministry band and we use metal as a tool to teach the Bible. But we acknowledge that there are bands that simply want to entertain.
HMA: Possibly, metal is the most outspoken form of creativity that is very much against religion or any form of a religious organization; then again, the language in most metal bands is of religious nature. Why do you think this is the case?
Whether people admit or not, deep inside every one of them is a wonder and a hopeful amazement at the thought of an afterlife. That is the way God made us and that is why so many metal bands delve into the supernatural. The Bible says God put eternity in our hearts. But the reason why Jesus Christ was crucified by men was because He claimed to be God and made many other exclusive claims that – if true – requires an immediate response from every human being. Either He is Who He says He is or else He was a madman. The Bible says He is the Creator of the world and all things consist through Him. When He appeared to men and women after His resurrection, they went on to change to the world so that others could understand Who He is. All of His 12 disciples except John died a martyr’s death because they saw and conversed with the resurrected Christ. John died an exile on the island called Patmos and wrote the book of Revelation. The message of the Bible is very offensive to the natural man because Jesus called men and women to turn from their sin and follow Him. Metal music has the ability to create a “wolf pack mentality” that stirs up a spirit of rebellion that becomes “a cause” for those who are unwilling to yield to their Creator’s correction. The demonic spirit world is fully engaged in this as well. They want nothing more than to malign the message of salvation because their master is a thief and comes only to steal, kill and destroy. That is what Jesus Christ taught.
HMA: Political influences, both right and left, share the same opposition to religion. Would you say that there is an infiltration of politics in metal?
As I stated before, metal is a very influential music form. Every singer knows this as they see people in their audience mouthing the words back to them that they wrote alone in their studio. Every musician who understands this will be tempted to use their influence to promote a message. To those who have no intimate relationship with God, they speak of things they feel passionately about. Therefore, you might hear a strong nationalistic message or one that is countercultural (depending on their perspective). But to those of us who realize our time on earth is short and our inability to achieve eternal life on our own, we embrace the message of Jesus Christ. If there are any political point of views that reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ, you might hear someone like myself promote such a view. One example is my full embrace of the pro-life agenda. Killing babies they that are “inconvenient” is not God’s Way.
HMA: To a certain extent, metal can be regarded as a form of postmodernism, would you agree? What are your thoughts on this?
For those unfamiliar with the term “postmodernism”, I would encourage you to read Wikipedia’s definition. Postmodernists believe truth is relative and “changes” with culture. Followers of Jesus Christ believe in Absolute Truth that does not change. It is my opinion that many in the metal community (and mankind in general) desire to live outside the obligations of the Most High God who defines Truth. Not only did Jesus Christ proved Himself to be God but also claimed to be Truth. As followers of Him, we believe He defines Absolute Truth – therefore, our band unashamedly teach what He taught and reject the notion that we are “naiive realists”.
HMA: Anton LaVey and Aleister Crowley are the two most mentioned characters and are used as references and inspiration, of course, there are others. But I wanted to focus on these two characters. [If you think others need to be mentioned, please add them as well]. LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible, full of plagiarism from other real philosophers and turned circus performance tricks into some kind of valid way of life. Crowley, on the other hand, was a very sophisticated philosopher with the great ambition to follow the same spiritual path of Jesus as the announcer of a new aeon; instead, he died alone and as an addict and fully conscious that any occult shortcuts cannot achieve spiritual enlightenment. Why and how did they make their way to influence musicians and visual artists?
Mankind simply wants to deny the existence of a moral standard because it clashes with their desire to “do what they want”. They rebel against Absolute Truth because they think the pleasure they experience will be fulfilling. But, as you stated, addiction becomes a bondage that eventually leads to despair. In my lifetime, I have seen many secular musicians reach that same point of consciousness that life is not fulfilling without an adherence to Absolute Truth. Trying to find lasting freedom in a world where Truth is not defined is impossible.
HMA: Of course, there are other influences like northern European paganism, H.P. Lovecraft, sci-fi, Marxism, postmodernism, etc. All inclined to decry and attack Abrahamic religions and monotheism… but actually Christianity mostly as a matter of fact. In one of the interviews we have done, the late Trevor Strnad from The Black Dahlia Murder said that it is “out cowardice” that bands don’t mention other religions, not that they have to. But do you think this is such a preoccupation, given that it is illegal to discriminate against religions and people who practice those faiths?
Our band, SARDONYX, does not believe that “all wells lead to the same source”. The “co-exist” model does not work because Absolute Truth cannot contradict itself. For instance: The Bible teaches that Abraham took Isaac up Mount Moriah when God tested Him to offer his only son as a sacrifice before Him. But Islam teaches that it was Ishmael that Abraham took up the mountain. Only one is right. But the Bible’s claim that it was Isaac is very important because it was only through Isaac that the lineage of Jesus Christ, the Messiah would come. Another example: The Infinite God of the Bible is eternal and unchanging. He clearly stated in His 10 Commandments that He would have no other gods before Him. If man makes it “illegal” to follow these Commandments, then we are prepared to suffer the consequences of following God rather than men.
HMA: What makes Christian metal relevant? It seems to be a hard break between Christian metal bands and the other bands in terms of festival appearances, label rosters, etc. of course; there are exceptions like Skillet playing at Download festival and Mortification was signed to Nuclear Blast records.
Every Christian musician needs to make a choice in their relationship with God in how they will use their talent. Jesus taught that the world will hate us if we follow Him. In the early days of the Christian metal movement, I believe bands tried so hard to become relevant to the secular metal scene that they “dumbed down” the message of the Gospel because they didn’t want to be hated. They wanted to be cool and accepted. I was tempted many times. I liked the attention as the long-haired frontman of a metal band and it plunged me into many satanic traps that almost destroyed me and my marriage. Did my public image help others to become more like Jesus? Maybe. I still have fans tell me that our band helped them through a hard time in their life when they needed a role model that was “the real deal”. Now that I am older, I realize that God used me in that way. But I also realize that it is far better for me to hear the Voice of God during times of deep intimacy with Him and release what He gives me in new music – rather than writing simply to impress people or make a strong statement. Jesus intensely respected John the Baptist. But John was not “relevant” to his culture. He came from the wilderness and preached a message of repentance. People either accepted it or they did not. Being in a band is all about self-promotion. Metal bands often times promote themselves with bold and extreme points of view. I respect Skillet and others like them for finding a way to do that while still being men and women of God. But, as you stated, they are exceptions rather than the rule. To be a successful band, there are many, many other requirements that need to be achieved. For example: for many musicians, you have to choose between having a traditional family or being on the road away from them. I, for one, chose to become a studio musician rather than jeopardize my marriage and longer. I have now been married for 37 years and my wife and I have three successful adult children who love the LORD as well. Did I have “the stuff” to be in a successful worldwide touring band? I once had a security guard come up to me at an arena show we played at in Casper, Wyoming in 1993 and tell me that Metallica had played there shortly before. He encouraged me by saying, “The only difference between your live show and theirs was a whole lot of money and you are nice guys and they are &$$#@!*$”. I never forgot that. I respect bands like Metallica for their ability to put everything aside to achieve a goal. But I would not trade my family for their notoriety. I will sum it up like this: You don’t have to make Jesus Christ “relevant”. If you want to win the respect of an audience, play good music and don’t have an attitude. Your love will cut through into any hard heart. Maybe not right away – but it will happen.
HMA: Have you ever been discriminated against by other bands in the scene? Any stories you like to share?
Of course! But because we were a good live band (musically) in the early 90s, we worked hard to gain the respect of people in secular clubs and venues. We learned early on how to build that kind of respect. It’s somewhat challenging for some Christian musicians to live the Jesus Way and still have the “edge” needed to “throw it down” in a live show. You have to have an intense stage presence if you are going to be a good metal musician (Look up “SARDONYX – Holy Avenger – Creation ‘94” on YouTube to see us playing live). But then you have to be able to step down from your own self-promotion and serve people as Jesus did. Sometimes we felt the direct clashing of kingdoms regardless of our ability to love on people. No one could ever convince me that literal demons are not real after I saw them manifested in people who hated us for no reason. I’ve had people stare me down with animosity and disgust just by being in the same room with them. I once had that happen to me while I was with two non-Christian musician friends who were friends of mine. They saw a demon manifest in another person who obviously was very bothered by me being near them and it freaked them out. Honestly, those kinds of interactions with demon possessed people are a great catalyst for teaching others about the reality of the spirit world.
HMA: What are your thoughts on The Satanic Panic of the 70s/80s?
The Bible clearly states that the heart of mankind is “deceitful and desperately wicked”. Jesus Christ taught that Satan is a thief who comes only to steal, kill and destroy. The mere existence of man’s debauchery proves the teachings of Jesus, Who came to give us abundant LIFE. Satan’s disciples clearly do what Satan does. Their very actions prove the Bible is Absolute Truth.
HMA: Where do you stand on black metal as a whole and the majority of black metal bands that actively discriminate against Christianity like Behemoth, Graveland, Belphegor, Rotting Christ, etc.?
They simply reveal their hearts (who they are deep inside). It’s a shame that many of them never had a chance to experience the real love of God. They can complain and try and discredit those of us who know the Most High God personally and have been changed by Him. But ultimately, their personal lives will reflect the fruit of their world view.
HMA: Since misanthropy and nihilism are often associated with black metal lyrics, visuals and music, do you think they are even qualified to offer any valid opinions or thoughts about Christianity?
One of the traits of truly wise and Godly people in my life is being a teachable person. I am willing to listen to any criticism and I will ask the Lord to give me wisdom how to represent Him better as a result. But everyone needs to learn to separate the blunders of organized religion with the day to day intimate relationship that many of us have with God. The reason why there are so many different denominations and sects within Christianity is because of the many mistakes that were made in the history of the Church. People in all the ages of church history made mistakes. But God remains unchanged. Black metal can separate themselves from the realities of Absolute Truth. But they will never keep God from being Who He is. Only the wise person will seek Him with all their hearts and ask Him to reveal Himself to them.
HMA: Hatred, pessimism, and Satanism seem the prime mover of black metal and some death metal; why do you think bands that come from the most comfortable part of the world have such idiotic views on life?
The demonic world is actively involved in keeping them in spiritual blindess – plain and simple. From the fall of Lucifer and the third of the angels that fell with him, their primary purpose is to distract people from Who Jesus Christ is. And, as stated before, most of them never saw a life of integrity modelled well. That is my goal as an older American power metal singer.
HMA: Final thoughts and messages you like to share with all we have discussed.
Thank you for your questions. Living a life set apart for Jesus Christ is an easy thing to do after you realize how much He did for you on the Cross. But living the Christian life is also the hardest thing to do because it requires that we die to ourselves and carry the very Holy Spirit that Jesus did. I am well past arguing about Who Jesus Christ is. If you have questions about Him, friend request me on Facebook or send me an email. My strong views come from being His follower since 1971 when I was 9 years old. “A lot of water has passed under the bridge” since then and I have experienced many amazing things. I would be happy to share them with you. But you need a teachable spirit. In the Amplified Bible – Hebrews 11:6 says, “But without faith it is impossible to [walk with God and] please Him, for whoever comes [near] to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He rewards those who [earnestly and diligently] seek Him.”
Thank you for your answers and for your time!